gress in Barcelona.  Victoria’s Secret chief diversity officer Lydia Smith. Supplied Jo-Anne Hui-Miller: Tell me about the evolution of Victoria’s Secret and how its DEI transformation began. Lydia Smith: In 2021, we split from L Brands, so when Victoria’s Secret and Co. became its own company, with the brands Victoria’s Secret and Victoria’s Secret Pink under it, that’s really where the transformation began, both internally and externally.  We like to say that we’re transforming from the inside out. It’s not just about showing up in a performative way in front of consumers, but how are we building our teams? How are we prioritising inclusivity and diversity internally? Transparency has been at the core for us, as well as really prioritising our associates and our love of the customer, and listening and learning every step of the way.  Often, some of our leaders say that when our brand lost its path, it was because we stopped listening. Our North Star is being the world’s leading advocate for women and tying everything that we do back to that and how we show up. That’s our purpose. That’s our mission. Making sure that everything is rooted in that has been the key to our transformation and evolution. JHM: As chief diversity officer, what have been some of the key challenges that you have faced since coming on board? LS: It’s a big shift to move in, making sure that the right hand is talking to the  left hand and that everyone is on the same page. We know that we have an aligned mission, but we all have to be in sync in terms of the details and how we get there as well.  For me, part of the challenge is knowing that everyone is starting from a different place in their own individual journey. So my job coming into this role was to create a platform or a framework for DEI that everyone can get behind and apply to their work, regardless of where they are on their own journey.  I think that’s what can sometimes be challenging about this work – we’re each coming at it from our personal lived experiences. And then you have this big brand that is responsible and accountable for showing up in a certain way for our customers, and ensuring that we’re reflective of our communities and that our customers can see themselves in our brand.  There’s personal accountability and corporate accountability and they intersect. It can be a challenge oftentimes for people to get over their personal thoughts or experiences and understand how that connects to our vision as a company and the direction we’re headed. JHM: How is Victoria’s Secret now faring on its DEI journey? LS: I’m proud of the progress that we’ve made and of where we are. But we acknowledge that we have a long way to go and there’s work to do. We’re on a transformation journey, meaning we’re not starting from the beginning. For a lot of people, we are changing what they had previously thought of our brand – and that doesn’t happen overnight. That takes a while to build credibility and trust.  I think sometimes the diversity and inclusion work, especially from a brand focus, can be minimised and it’s just about seeing someone with my skin colour, or in my size in an image. That’s a very performative way of thinking about the work and if it were that easy, then yeah, we could just check the box and it’s done. But it takes time to evolve into a brand that women think about and can relate to at any stage of their lives across all the different dimensions of diversity. It has to be a lived experience, it has to be relatable, people have to see themselves.  Supplied JHM: Can you tell me about some of those changes that have been made so far? How is Victoria’s Secret a different brand to what it was previously? LS: When you look at the talent in our creative, we’re really proud of our Love Cloud Campaign that launched last year. That was one of our most popular launches and campaigns, so it tells you that diversity is valued.  It’s beyond [the campaign], though. When we think about diversity, equity and inclusion, it’s everything. It’s the people we’re working with behind the scenes: the hairstylists, makeup artists, photographers, vendors, the talent on our internal team across marketing, and not just on the brand side, but in finance and technology as well.  So we’re seeing an increased representation of diverse talent throughout the organisation. We’re really focusing on leadership roles. We have a goal of 25 per cent people of colour [in leadership roles] by 2028 and we’re being really intentional about not just how we recruit diverse talent, but how they’re developed and promoted into leadership roles, because we know that affects their ability to perform and be innovative. Those are all internal things that are changing the way we work, even with our community partners.  Philanthropic giving has been a core of our company for a long time. But it’s beyond just making donations to important causes. We have our Victoria’s Secret Global Fund for Women’s Cancers. But we also have partnerships with community organisations where we don’t just give donations, we work with them through programming and different activities throughout the year.  I think the other thing that I’ve noticed is the way we’re collaborating internally across teams and really speaking to one another, prioritising the customer. It’s not so much a focus on my area and what I’m doing, it’s how we are working collaboratively, across the various teams, to meet the needs of our customers. JHM: Can you tell me about the recruitment process at Victoria’s Secret? LS: When we think about recruiting, we really think about the full lifecycle and building pipelines. Sometimes the first thing people think about when they think about diversity is recruitment. People think it means you’re gonna hire people just because they [fill a need for diversity]. We’re making sure our hiring managers and leaders understand that we are not lowering a bar to bring in more diverse talent. We are being intentional about sourcing, building relationships, and exposing our leaders to diverse people who are top talent. We’re going to remove the barriers or biases that exist in the process. So for us, when we look at recruiting, we’re really thinking about sourcing. That means where we’re going [to find people]. We can’t go to the same places we’ve always been, you can’t just lean into your network.  I often say to leaders, ‘Let’s look at your LinkedIn.’ And if the people you’re connected to on LinkedIn all look like you, and you post a job, it’s not very realistic that anyone who doesn’t look like you will apply. So the first thing we think about is expanding our sources. Once you’re in that process, you’ve got to remove all the biases at every step. When we think about the job interviews, who’s doing the interviewing and who’s on the panel? Does a potential employee see the inclusive nature of our company based on who’s interviewing them? Or is it all one demographic that they’re seeing during the interview process? We know that DEI is a priority for associates, too, so they need to see that throughout their interview process. That’s a huge part of recruiting as well.  Beyond the interview process, there are the actual deliberations around hiring – who has a voice in those discussions? It’s no good to have a diverse interview panel, but not have diverse voices at the table when you’re deciding to whom the company will make an offer.  So we’re thinking about all those things all through the recruitment cycle, even onboarding.  Retention and development are equally important. If we get you in the door, [we need to be] intentional about how we develop you and get you ready for future promotions, to meet your unique development needs and increase that representation in leadership. For example, the way that you would develop a woman may not be the same way that a man would be developed. What are their unique needs? How do we connect you to the right people, the right mentors, the right sponsors? DEI really is more than just recruiting for us. It’s a full talent lifecycle strategy. JHM: I think especially one group that gets overlooked is older women, whether they’re customers or potential team members. LS: I love that you mentioned that. Because there is a focus around Gen Z. A lot of times, when we do have a conversation around age, we tend to go younger, bringing in a new generation of shoppers. But we got so much positive feedback from our Love Cloud campaign, because we were intentional about including women from different ages and generations and it was so beautifully done. So when we do talk about age, we’re not just leaning into Gen Z and younger generations. We’re ensuring that more experienced women also are represented in our campaigns, consumer insights and brand direction. JHM: During your career, you’ve been a chief diversity officer for a few companies. I’m noticing a lot more brands hiring chief diversity officers now. What would you say to a business that’s considering hiring one? Why do they need one? How can they help a business? Why can’t it just be the HR person’s job? LS: I think it is about prioritising people. And I love that in my role, I spend a good amount of my time on people, even though I also spend time on the brand. The focus is on our associates and our customers. If you don’t value people, then don’t hire a chief diversity officer, because then it will truly be a performative role.  When companies really are placing value on people – their associates, community members, customers – the role makes a tonne of sense, because they’re going to bring you perspectives that will help you better serve all of those populations. And that’s really the way to look at it. How can we best serve our associates? How can we best serve our customers? How can we best serve our communities? Inclusion is going to be at the centre of all of those questions.  Much of the frustration some of my peers in chief diversity roles have is that they don’t have a voice or a seat at the table. I think that’s super important.  JHM: But they’re chiefs of diversity… LS: Exactly. There have been some studies that have been published, where if you look at the reporting structure, whether it’s chief of diversity, or head of diversity and inclusion, they’re reporting to someone multiple levels below a CEO or leadership team. Their perspective really isn’t being heard.  So that’s the other thing. Does the chief of diversity have a voice? Do they have influence and the decision-making ability to truly drive a change in direction? If not, it’s a performative role. And I think that’s why in some companies with that role, turnover is so high, because the chief of diversity is not truly in a position to be able to influence change. JHM: Why did you decide to take up the role at Victoria’s Secret? You must like a challenge.  LS: I love a challenge. But also, I wanted to be a part of something great and I truly believed in the vision that the leadership team had. I spoke to so many people during my interview process, many were boomerangs who had left the brand and had come back. I think that says a lot, for someone who has left to feel strongly enough about the change in direction and the transformation of the brand that they would return.  Then it was the opportunity to do something amazing that I don’t think a lot of people get a chance to do: Our DEI strategy is something new, but we’re building it on a strong foundation with huge brand recognition. There was an opportunity to truly build a legacy that is impactful for women every day in a positive way. I really wanted to be a part of that.